JTC1/SC22/WG14
N875
Preliminary Minutes for Feb 1-5 1999
Meeting of ISO/JTC1/SC22/WG14 and NCITS/J11
WG14/N875 J11/99-010
01 Feb 98 09:00-12:00 13:30-17:00
02 Feb 98 08:30-12:00 13:30-17:00
03 Feb 98 08:30-12:00 13:30-17:00
04 Feb 98 08:30-12:00 13:30-17:00
05 Feb 98 08:30-12:00
Intel Corp.
Cornell Oaks Corporate Center -- Building C01
15201 N.W. Greenbrier Parkway
Beaverton, Oregon 97006, USA
Roger Golliver
roger.a.golliver@intel.com
Voice: +1 503 264-9652
Fax: +1 503 264-4515
------------------------------------------------------------
Monday Feb 1st
8:30 -- 9:00 --- Coffee ---
9:00 -- 10:15 1. Opening activities
1.1 Opening Comments
1.2 Introduction of Participants
Benito, John Perennial WG14, Convener
Golliver, Roger Intel, alternate J11
Gwyn, Douglas US Army J11
Harris, Erin IBM J11, WG14, Canada
Jaeschke, Rex Self J11, Chair
Jones, Larry SDRC J11, Project Editor
MacDonald, Tom SGI J11
Meyers, Randy Silverhills Systems J11
Nelson, Clark Intel J11
Peterson, Rich Compaq/Digital J11
Plum, Tom Plum Hall J11
Seebach, Peter Self J11
Seymour, Bill Self J11, Rationale Editor
Simonsen, Keld Danish Standards WG14, Denmark HOD
Thomas, Jim HP J11, alternate
Tydeman, Fred Tydeman Consulting J11,
Walls, Douglas Sun J11, USA HOD, and
Meeting secretary
Feather, Clive BSI WG14, UK HOD
Tanaka, Keishiro Fujitsu WG14, Japan HOD
1.3 Host Facilities/local information
1.4 Procedures for this Meeting
1.5 Approval of Previous Minutes [N859]
N872 - Final Minutes Santa Cruz (Walls)
Approved No changes.
1.6 Review of Action Items and Resolutions
(Done) Rex Jaeschke: procedures for update of minutes (final
minutes) to be made official.
Provide revision and John Benito
(Open) Randy Meyers: will update previous minutes for those
that he took.
(Done) Benito: Send Rationale to Keld for ftp site
(Done) Jan Kristoffersen+Randy Meyers words why no I/O
hardware in C9X (pro and con sides). Post to reflector
before include into rationale.
(Done) Clive Feather - rationale for sequence points. [No
longer needed].
(Done) Keld - look into putting C++ on C private ftp site for
members use. Still maintain email cross posting between C
and C++.
(Done) We need to draft letter to request POSIX NOT include
it. Done: Is part of WG14 N860.
(Done) Tydeman - post where to get LIA-2.
(Open) Meyers: Write rationale on 64-bit with ideas on how to
reduce code size if not used.
(Open) Keld Simonsen will coordinate with POSIX, WG20, Single
Unix on localeconv.
(Done) UK (Jones) will work on getting words along with SGI
(MacDonald+Homer).
(Open) Tom MacDonald: Rationale for this change to FOR (and
related).
(Open) Seebach craft words for rationale why we did not adopt
conformance requirements in to C9X.
(Open) Keld will host email-list about conformance to start with
C, C++, Java.
(Open) Keaton+Larry to come up with words for why
Number of arguments no change needed.
(Done) Tom MacDonald: add this to rationale, VLA side effects
rationale as to why they are not allowed
(Done) Rex Jaeschke will work on issues raised by C committee
on I18N API.
(Closed) Everyone: See what your implementations do for this code.
Matters more to C++ (due to destructors and static data).
(Done) Rex J. provide email address of NCITS Liaison (Tom Frost)
to J11. tfrost@att.com
(Done) Rex Jaeschke talk to Tom Frost about ballot choices.
J11 members must also use official channels (Deborah Donovan,
202-626-5746, ddonovan@itic.nw.dc.us or ddonovan@itic.org).
(Done) Perennial+Keaton: Provide words to Clive on Annex D
removal.
(Done) MacDonald: Feather #23 response. Part of restrict. (Done)
(Done) Plum to coordinate with C++.
Backup might be St. Louis, Missouri hosted by Seymour.
(Done) Meyers: I/O Hardware words for rationale
(Done) Gwyn/Benito: To notify WG15 about changes to assert.
(Closed) Harris: __func rationale from Mooney.
(Open) Meyers: Produce rationale for macro replacement
(Open) Seebach: Provide strsep() rationale.
(Closed) Feather - Rationale for struct tmx. [No longer needed].
(Open) Jones - Provide strftime() rationale.
(Open) Meyers - %m rationale.
1.7 Approval of Agenda [N864]
1.8 Distribution of New Documents
1.9 Information on Next Meeting
1.10 Identification of National Bodies/J11
voting members
WG14 National Bodies: Canada, U.K., U.S., Japan, Denmark
J11 members who have not paid this years dues, due by 2/22/99 to
avoid losing membership:
Compaq, HP, Farance, Intel, Keaton, Seymour, Plum Hall, Unisys
J11 voting members 15 out of 17
10:15 -- 10:30 2. Project Editor's Report [N870] (Jones)
10:30 -- 10:45 --- Morning break ---
10:45 -- 11:00 3. Rational Editor's Report (Seymour)
11:00 -- 11:15 4. Liaison Activities
4.1 J11 + ANSI (C)
4.2 WG14 + ISO/SC22 (C)
4.3 J16/WG21 (C++)
4.4 WG15 (Posix)
4.5 WG20 (I18N)
4.6 Other Liaison Activities
11:15 -- 11:30 5a. FCD Status Report (Benito)
Voting results
13 - Yes
3 - No (Denmark, Japan, U.K.)
2 - Abstain
4 - Not voting
1 - O member voting
We will resolve the comments here. If not done at this meeting
there will be a follow-up WG14 meeting resolve any remaining comments.
11:30 -- 12:00 5b. Restrict [N866, N867] (MacDonald)
12:00 -- 13:30 --- LUNCH ---
13:30 -- 14:00 6. Identify work items for this meeting
(Jaeschke/Benito)
14:00 -- 15:00 7. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
15:00 -- 15:15 --- Afternoon break ---
15:15 -- 17:00 8. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
Tuesday Feb 2nd
8:00 -- 8:30 --- Coffee ---
8:30 -- 10:30 9. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
10:30 -- 10:45 --- Morning break ---
10:45 -- 12:00 10. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
12:00 -- 13:00 --- LUNCH ---
13:00 -- 15:00 11. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
15:00 -- 15:15 --- Afternoon break ---
15:15 -- 17:00 12. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
19:00 -- Reception hosted by Intel
Wednesday Feb 3rd
8:00 -- 8:30 --- Coffee ---
8:30 -- 10:30 13. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
10:30 -- 10:45 --- Morning break ---
10:45 -- 12:00 14. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
12:00 -- 13:30 --- LUNCH ---
13:30 -- 15:00 15. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
15:00 -- 15:15 --- Afternoon break ---
15:15 -- 15:45 16a. Side effects in VLAs (MacDonald)
15:45 -- 16:00 16b. WG20 liason issues (Simonsen)
10 - Keld reporting on Standard on cultural conventions ISO/14652
Keld as liason is seeking support from WG14 on this work. WG14 has
previously expressed such support. The US at SC22 expresses opposition
to this work.
Request J11 IR (Walls) to investigate how the U.S. position in
the SC22 tag is being formed. And communicate the
J11 expression of support of the work in WG20 as
WG14 makes use this (WG20) work.
16:00 -- 18:00 16c. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
Thursday Feb 4th
8:00 -- 8:30 --- Coffee ---
8:30 -- 9:00 17a. restrict [N867] (MacDonald)
SV. What should we do?
Do nothing - 5
Accept as proposed - 2
Sub group to look at if we can add via different syntax - 6
9:00 -- 9:30 17b. Side effects in VLAs (MacDonald)
9:30 -- 10:30 17c. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
10:30 -- 10:45 --- Morning break ---
10:45 -- 12:00 18. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
12:00 -- 13:00 --- LUNCH ---
13:00 -- 15:00 19. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
15:00 -- 15:15 --- Afternoon break ---
15:15 -- 17:00 20. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
US. Comment #1 Walls
atexit call after exit should be undefined
SV. Should we adopt a stack model
ALL in room 10-1
WG14 2-0-3
Friday Feb 5th
8:00 -- 8:30 --- Coffee ---
8:30 -- 10:15 21. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
UK. General comment #1 (line 2253 of N2872)
SV - In favor of the intent as proposed here
J11 8/2
WG14 4/0/1
Restrict [N867] (MacDonald)
Modified in subcommittee and on the floor to use the keyword "static"
SV - N867 as modified issue #2 do we want "static" used in
int a [static 10] means exactly 10 elements being passed
J11 - 7/1
WG14 - 3/0/2 (U.K., Denmark, U.S. - For) (Canada, Japan - Abstain)
Canada comment of concern this could change Canada position
don't know.
SV - Do you want issue #1 allowing qualifiers in parameter
array declarations, i.e. int a [restrict 10]
J11 - 7/2
WG14 - 3/1/1
SV - Do you want both issue #1 and #2 together
J11 - 7/1
WG14 - 3/1/1
Consensus reached on this issue.
Denmark comment #1 (line 429 of N2872)
SV - Adopt isblank() & iswblank() as specified in CD 9899 with
the following modifications to the descriptions:
Add: "The general use is for detecting word boundaries within a line."
Change: "for which isalnum is false"
To: "for which isspace is true"
J11 - 3/0
WG14 - 3/0/2
Consensus reached on this issue.
10:15 -- 10:30 --- Morning break ---
10:15 -- 10:30 22. Separate WG14 admin and J11/U.S. TAG meetings
10:30 -- 11:30 23. Subgroup deliberations and presentations
23.1 Disposition of comments [N873]
The disposition (resolution) of all comments on FCD 9899 recording the
changes to be applied to C9X to produce the FDIS from the FCD
are recorded in N873.
11:30 -- 12:00 24. Administration
24.1 Future Meetings
24.1.1 Future Meeting Schedule
Jun 21-25, 1999 London BSI
Oct 18-22, 1999 Hawaii Plum Hall
24.1.2 Future Agenda Items
24.1.3 Future Mailings (sponsor for WG14 mailings)
post-Portland deadline March 5, 1999
pre-London deadline May 28, 1999
Submit input for rationale revision by April 1, 1999
24.2 Resolutions
24.2.1 Review of Decisions Reached
24.2.2 Formal Vote on Resolutions
24.2.3 Review of Action Items
Prior meetings:
*AI: (Done) Rex Jaeschke: procedures for update of minutes (final
minutes) to be made official.
Provide revision and John Benito
*AI: (Open) Randy Meyers: will update previous minutes for those
that he took.
*AI: (Done) Benito: Send Rationale to Keld for ftp site
*AI: (Done) Jan Kristoffersen+Randy Meyers words why no I/O
hardware in C9X (pro and con sides). Post to reflector
before include into rationale.
*AI: (Done) Clive Feather - rationale for sequence points. [No
longer needed].
*AI: (Done) Keld - look into putting C++ on C private ftp site for
members use. Still maintain email cross posting between C
and C++.
*AI: (Done) We need to draft letter to request POSIX NOT include
it. Done: Is part of WG14 N860.
*AI: (Done) Tydeman - post where to get LIA-2.
*AI: (Open) Meyers: Write rationale on 64-bit with ideas on how to
reduce code size if not used.
*AI: (Open) Keld Simonsen will coordinate with POSIX, WG20, Single
Unix on localeconv.
*AI: (Done) UK (Jones) will work on getting words along with SGI
(MacDonald+Homer).
*AI: (Open) Tom MacDonald: Rationale for this change to FOR (and
related).
*AI: (Open) Seebach craft words for rationale why we did not adopt
conformance requirements in to C9X.
*AI: (Done) Keld will host email-list about conformance to start with
C, C++, Java.
*AI: (Open) Keaton+Larry to come up with words for why
Number of arguments no change needed.
*AI: (Done) Tom MacDonald: add this to rationale, VLA side effects
rationale as to why they are not allowed
*AI: (Done) Rex Jaeschke will work on issues raised by C committee
on I18N API.
*AI: (Closed) Everyone: See what your implementations do for this code.
Matters more to C++ (due to destructors and static data).
*AI: (Done) Rex J. provide email address of NCITS Liaison (Tom Frost)
to J11. tfrost@att.com
*AI: (Done) Rex Jaeschke talk to Tom Frost about ballot choices.
J11 members must also use official channels (Deborah Donovan,
202-626-5746, ddonovan@itic.nw.dc.us or ddonovan@itic.org).
*AI: (Done) Perennial+Keaton: Provide words to Clive on Annex D
removal.
*AI: (Done) MacDonald: Feather #23 response. Part of restrict. (Done)
*AI: (Done) Plum to coordinate with C++.
Backup might be St. Louis, Missouri hosted by Seymour.
*AI: (Done) Meyers: I/O Hardware words for rationale
*AI: (Done) Gwyn/Benito: To notify WG15 about changes to assert.
*AI: (Closed) Harris: __func rationale from Mooney.
*AI: (Open) Meyers: Produce rationale for macro replacement
*AI: (Open) Seebach: Provide strsep() rationale.
*AI: (Closed) Feather - Rationale for struct tmx. [No longer needed].
*AI: (Open) Jones - Provide strftime() rationale.
*AI: (Open) Meyers - %m rationale.
New action item:
*AI (Open) Clive, Provide London (6/99) meeting info.
*AI (Open) Rex, Needs to provide responses to individuals
submitting U.S. comments on the FCD
*AI (Open) All, Resolutions of all comments needed by end
this meeting in electronic form.
*AI (Open) Walls, Request of the SC22 tag how the US position
on ISO/14652, the Standard on cultural conventions is being formed.
J11 would like to express an opinion. WG14 has expressed to SC22
they use this work.
*AI (Done) Keld, to send Walls previous US position on ISO/14652
*AI (Open) MacDonald rationale side-effects in VLA
*AI (Open) MacDonald rationale for static added to array parameter syntax
24.2.4 Thanks to Host
24.3 Other Business
12:00 25. Adjournment
------------------------------------------------------------
Minutes for the J11/U.S. TAG Meeting, Friday Feb 5th at 10:15
Walls reported on the results of the FCD 9899 ballot
Question: I support the approval of FCD 9899: Information technology -
Programming languages - Programming Language C (Revision of
ISO/IEC 9899:1990)
4 - Yes
12 - Yes, with comment (All comments were the same *)
0 - No
1 - Not voting, letter ballot not returned
* All U.S. public comments should be forwarded as a part of the
U.S. position on FCD 9899: Information technology -
Programming languages - Programming Language C (Revision of
ISO/IEC 9899:1990).
The vote we cast on the FCD is the same vote used on the FDIS by
default, unless we notify Debbie otherwise. Saves us from having to do
a letter ballot on the FDIS.
FM (Gwyn/Benito) - J11 recommends a yes vote on FDIS
14/0/0/1/15
Walls reported yes vote on ISO/IEC DIS 16509 forward to SC22 tag.
Appoint delegation and HOD for future WG14 meetings.
U.S. Delegations for Jun 1999 Meeting as decided at October 1998
TAG meeting in Santa Cruz
Douglas Walls (HOD)
Larry Jones
Bill Seymour
Tom MacDonald
Chair ask is we shall adopt the same group for October 1999, no objections.